2/15/2012: It’s a popular choice, though the stopping power of the .45 caliber round may strike some students and faculty as overkill for on-campus use.
Invoice here, looks like a nice discount for buying 10 with 3 clips magazines each. No ammo or training yet.
Training with a 45 will cost a lot more over the long run the a 9mm or .40.
So are the getting guns because Campus Police in Davis recently provided strong evidence of the dangers and risks associated with tear gas??
It’s an accuracy/penetration tradeoff. Given the potential for collateral damage I’d have gone with a 9mm or 0.40 cal. Plus it’s a bit less to carry. This is a good example of the sort of decision that UO should not have made without consultation with a physics professor.
You have this reversed. A standard 9mm FMJ is much more likely to over penetrate than a standard .45. And the type of round used is a much greater variable.
You want a bullet that transfers the most possible kinetic energy to it’s primary target, typically by mushrooming or fragmenting on impact. The immense hydrostatic shock and cavitation will not bode too well for the primary target, but bystanders will be much safer.
There are rounds made for every caliber that do this well. The type of gun is no longer the primary concern.
Notorious for its fat grip. Chief Tripp’s not going to hire female officers?
Dog comments
nice to see that readers of this forum are also gun experts …
and since when are physics professors relevant to anything at the UO
my personal choice would have been an AA 12 – can’t go wrong with
that – everybody dies …
Accuracy will be OK so long as they avoid the 230 grain load.
Informative interview about the history of the Glock on the Jan 24, 2012 Fresh Air with Terri Gross.
http://www.npr.org/2012/01/24/145640473/how-the-glock-became-americas-weapon-of-choice
DPS officers can’t be real cops and drink coffee with their EPD colleagues without a 9-mm Glock, a $7,000
Motorola radio and a gas guzzling SUV to protect them from riotous students.
The Glock has a simple point and click interface. The “undo” button does not work however.
Wow, I have read a lot of uniformed stuff on UO Matters and taken it with a grain of salt but really before you comment you should at least have a basic knowledge base to work from. 9mm are small and travel a lot faster than a big 45. Therefor 9mm tend to go through targets and hit stuff behind the target. 45s tend to go slow and mushroom when they hit the target staying in the target. Ballistics has a fairly wide range of variables though so mileage may vary.
People need to do some research on this…
9mm is a fast and flat shooting round, which will penetrate more deeply in most materials than larger bore rounds.
Take a ballpoint pen, and tap at a piece of paper… now do the same with a highlighter…. They both will impact the paper with force, but one is more likely to keep on going…. a .45 is a good choice for a campus police force. As for female officers (although, its a poor statement to start with… some females have large hands, and some men small hands… but, whatever)… Glock 21’s can come with the standard large grip, or as a 21SF (slim-frame) model. Either way, both guns can be accurately fired by anyone… provided they have proper training (wait, I thought that was what the UO was planning to do with these?).
As for UC Davis…. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=hhPdH3wE0_Y
Some things are bad, some are good…. but, you won’t know if you don’t objectively evaluate the situation.
The invoice looks like they went with the Generation 4. it has an interchangeable back strap and should be able to more accommodate small handed shooters.
A thinner back strap is not going to help much, they should have got a few SF’s for the “small handed”. Or just ordered the 0.40 cal G23. But the 0.45 does look more macho, and goes with the new SUV’s.
Any word on what sort of shotguns they’re going to go with? The Remington 870 Police Magnum is very popular with corrections officers, and seems just right for keeping the undergraduates under control.
Magazines, not clips. Please at least get the terminology correct.
Why not a nice metal framed 1911? Pistol-whipping works much better with a metal frame.
Sure, a 9mm might take out a 97 lb philosophy grad student who’s got a problem with how some professor graded their prelims.
But when the defensive line runs amok and heads west from the Jaqua Center, you’ll all be glad Floyd Prozanski pushed this through the legislature, and that Frances Dyke sprang for .45 ACP Glocks.
There’s a whole lot of “you’re getting the gun info wrong” comments here and not too many “holy shit, DPS bought 10 Glocks”. This is WAY overkill. Fuck the police.
Anon, some day you will need the police. Maybe even the UO police. Since, in my experience, police are usually professionals even when that is very, very difficult, they will probably save your ass – even though you talk like an asshole.
I don’t want armed sworn police on campus. I think it’s a misuse of UO resources, and I think Doug Tripp, Frances Dyke, and Floyd Prozanski sold us a bill of goods.
But no way am I going to say “Fuck the police”. It’s a tough job, and they get enough of that talk from the drunk football fans.
UO Matters
The odds that a violent campus incident will occur and that armed UO police will make the difference in ending it at a reduced cost in lives, are vanishingly small.
My guess is that the odds of a firearms accident are larger. Last year one Eugene officer was killed in the line of duty, one was killed in a shooting range accident.
The most likely result is that the presence of armed university cops will encourage some distraught UO student to attempt “suicide by cop”, perhaps killing a few bystanders in the process.
This move to arm the UO police is a big, poorly thought out mistake.
Most folks I know who are close to this issue and have been involved in the discussions and decisions would say this decision has been long labored over, debated, discussed and completely well thought out by competent and well meaning folks who weren’t predisposed to a conclusion. They wrestled with all of the issues brought up here and ultimately made their decision. And every meeting was a public one where every poster here had the opportunity to voice their thoughts.
Arguments about there being armed officers on campus are moot as we’ve always have had them here albeit on an on call basis. And we’ve been paying the City of Eugene for that service – so this makes sense for budget reasons.
As sad as it is, it’s a reality that we need armed Public Safety officers.
When I separate my idealism from reality, I have to say that sadly this move makes sense.
Once I reach that sad conclusion, I also have to concede that they are capable of choosing the caliber of their side arm – and from my research, they have reached the same conclusion in their choice as most other police forces and military units have.
This has not been a public process, so we do not know if it has been carefully thought out by competent people. What we do not does not inspire trust.
The driving force behind conversion to sworn police was Frances Dyke. Her record of mismanagement of UO public safety and her refusal to address simple questions about the competence and background of the two previous DPS directors is well known to everyone and well documented in public records and news stories.
The financial cost of the conversion decision has been hidden from the campus – and yes, that has continued under the current Director, Doug Tripp. The comment above continues that trend. The cost of DPS has grown from $1.6 million to $4.2 million in 10 years – far faster than other UO departments. Who made that decision? Why?
DPS officers no longer patrol campus on bikes – they drive around the perimeter and Autzen in their SUVs and police interceptors. The website gives lip service to community based policing – I don’t see it.
Burying the decision to buy firearms in a memo that was never disseminated to stakeholders is just the latest decision by Chief Tripp and the UO administration. It’s a demonstration of power – not an attempt to draw the community in and engage with them.
Sorry Doug, but that’s the way many of us see the recent history. It’s not all your fault, but you need to acknowledge past mistakes were made, and make some changes, if you want to regain trust from the faculty and students.
DPS has a “police chief” with no actual police experience. How does that that work?
Probably the same way Sheriffs can get elected with no actual police experience.