oh snap. I know UAOSU ain’t been around for too long, but I think UAUO got em beat there, too. Just kidding cousins in Corvallis…
Anas clypeata
09/21/2020
As someone who doesn’t pay attention to the actual tuition price, I am amazed that even with decades of poor state support for the (former) OUS, in-state tuition and fees are only $13K per year! For a hard-working student who is willing to jump through a few hoops and earn some college credit during high school, a college degree from a #103-ranked university can be had for under $50K in cash? And that’s not counting potential financial aid and scholarship money. That is an incredible bargain, paying for itself many times over in lifetime earnings, better health and life expectancy, and many other benefits. Wow.
UO’s own metrics (https://ir.uoregon.edu/tuition) place full cost of education at nearly $30,000. Housing costs nearly as much as Tuition & Fees, and if you think that only applies to on-campus then you haven’t been in the Eugene rental market recently.
Nevermind that most students don’t come from families that have $50K in cash, let alone the >$100K it actually costs. They will be saddled with student loans that their liberal arts degree will be hard pressed to support. The Tableau report linked above lets you select CPI-adjusted dollars, which shows that college costs have doubled over the past 30 years. This is not an incredible bargain.
Ok, Snowflake
09/22/2020
I get it about it not being cheap, but it is not out of reach if you want it. You gotta live and eat somewhere. You can still find some cheap hole if you look. Ramen and rice and beans will still ward off starvation, just as they did for me at times.
The state long ago decided to spend more on stuff like medicaid and less on higher ed.
I hope your parent(s) have socked away some dough for you. There’s also Pell, the rest, you know it. You should be able to work off some of that <30K. Graduate with $30K debt. You will survive, with any luck.
I know a lot of things suck for you, great recession (on us) and covid (not). But Viet Nam sucked, the draft sucked. Having to support larger families with less dough and no food stamps wasn't always easy. Polio sucked, TB too. Severe mental illness when the only treatment was lobotomy sucked majorly. It still sucks, try to relax.
So, cupcake, suck it up. If you think UO ain't worth it, don't go and stop complaining. Try carpentry, try LCC, try Princeton if 103 is too lowly. Hell, try OSU! Make the most of it!
Ok, Boomer
09/22/2020
It’s true that a person who “wants it” could live down by the river and eat the trash that floats down the Willamette, thus reducing costs. But I never claimed that tuition was unpayable, just that it wasn’t the “incredible bargain” that the Shoveler claimed. I didn’t even get into the four and six year graduation rates (56% and 74% for the 2013 cohort year). Six year graduates add another 56K on top and those who leave with no degree at all still have the same student loans to pay off, only they don’t get the average lifetime earnings increase that everyone keeps promising exists.
The rebuttal is always that loans and scholarships exist and that jobs, slums, and ramen exist. This is true, but all are finite (excepting, perhaps, ramen) and so not every student burdened with the high cost of tuition will be able to avail themselves of this strategy. thedude below talks about better 2 year programs at LCC. Great! Does UO see any of that tuition?
Because here’s where people should really care. Faculty, Staff, Townies, what have you all depend on this institution for their livelihoods. This institution has charted a path forward that depends on growth, both in tuition and enrollment. But I don’t need to be an economics professor to tell you that at a certain point, the cost of college will be too damn high. And then we’re all eating ramen.
thedude
09/22/2020
And the cost of that 50k spread out over 25 years at 5 percent interest a year is $300 a month. Less than their car payment and close to their cable bill. For an average annual returns of 12 percent of year, or roughly 50% increase in earnings, it pays off itself within a few years, and pays of the opportunity cost of 4 years of missed income and tuition with a decade. So for most people college is a good investment.
But for the person on the margin it may not be. So maybe we need better 2 year programs through LCC, or even through UO continuing education programs (which we lack).
It seems as if some of yazz are doing your best to avoid the most important metric. That being the current state of student loans. Are loans in default, forebearance, or delinquent going up or down? If they’re decreasing, the point can be made that student debt has validity. If not, then they’re to be avoided.
Given that aggregate student loan balance is nearly $1.8 Trillion, it can be said it’s ridiculous that any nation burdens their students with that much debt in order to get a degree…
Thedude
09/22/2020
Well right now total auto loans 1.2 trillion. And the autos are going down in value. And increasing people roll loans over so they are for more than value……OMG we have an auto loan crisis!!!
Look most of the loans in default are for small amounts, drop outs. Not people who graduated with degrees.
So we should focus on college completion as the best way to solve this problem. Which is part preparation, part cost, part on us, and largely on students.
Look we can either raise income taxes to pay for school, or have student loans. The difference is we never get the breakdown of what taxes go to. But no education is free, other than what you teach yourself on the internet watching youtube.
Well, the amount of auto loans 90+ days delinquent has exploded over the last len years. Tha would indicate, college degreed or not, the capacity to pay for a car has decreased. The worst problems are found in the subprime category, or those with the worst credit. Sort of what colleges and the DOE have militated to take place. They’re allowing teen agers and young adults with no job history, no savings, no extended record of bill paying, you know, the folks who are increasingly unlikely to pay their debt, to take on tens of thousands in loans. Kinda stupid.
You were the one that made the comparison between auto loans and and college debt. Both are showing increasing levels of distressed loans, and increasing default rates. The reason is that despite gettting degrees, the ability to pay for that debt is also diminishing. Again, I asked anyone to display the current state of student loans, if the levels of delinquent, defaulted, or those in forbearance, were increasing or decreasing. All categories are, in fact, increasing, meaning that college completion isn’t anywhere near as important as the quality of the wages those graduates receive. But, you are right regarding student responsibility. It is on students not to be so obtuse they’ll believe anyone telling them that taking on student loans, which have little to no consumer protection, at this period of time, is a really good idea.
Further, why is it a question of increasing taxes, rather than cutting costs? You really think that any uni requires their current amount of adminstrative overhead? Does the flagship require any more construction and the attendant debt? Y’all put yourselves into this mess because nothing was in place to control the liabilities side of the balance sheet. Maybe that’s where you should be looking…
uomattersPost author | 09/22/2020
This is not directed specifically at you Charlie, because you are hardly the worst offender. But I get 3 main categories of comments on this blog: a) unadulterated and often hilarious snark, b) links to data with no explanation or interpretation, and c) explanations and interpretations with no links to data. We all enjoy the snark (except General Counsel Read and his lawyers, judging by their occasional threats) but please commenters, if you’re doing b include some c, and vice versa. Thanks, The Editor.
uomattersPost author | 09/22/2020
UO’s PathwayOregon program ensures that the lowest income Oregon residents pay nothing for tuition. The problem is students just above the Pell threshold (roughly $40K – $50K family income), who get almost nothing. https://pathwayoregon.uoregon.edu/content/award-overview
Townie
09/22/2020
Help me out here. Why should these students pay nothing for tuition? I believe they should pay substantially less than the sticker price, but zero seems insane. Everything has a price. These are adults who can get jobs and take out modest loans!
It seems like the middle class in this country has been ignored for generations. Tuition is far too high for most residents. Then you run into situations where a student from a more well off family has to pay on their own b/c of family trouble or unwillingness on the part of parents. A student should not be paying $13K annually (unless they are studying engineering). They should pay half that.
Townie
09/22/2020
Compared to other state universities it is too high.
Tuition should be about $7K tops in my opinion for the modal student after you factor in aid. I wonder what the modal student currently pays?
Also, when universities publish their tuition prices I think they should show a range, not just the high end “list price”. The $13K list price scares a lot of would be students.
Ok, Ok
09/22/2020
The info about real vs sticker cost is pretty available.
marmot
09/22/2020
Only 4 user reviews? What the hell are we paying all those strategic communicators for?
faculty member
09/23/2020
It is a funny theoretical discussion about the so-called “bargain”. None of them is a bargain because those are two lousy schools… lowest ranked in PAC12 by any reputable ranking, and largely prominent for nothing. I seriously doubt that any of us faculty members here would let out kids go to UO if kids were good enough to get into a real university. Even if it means I have to keep my old Subaru for another four years. For my kids the treat of having to go to UO was always the stick I used to make them study harder.
uomattersPost author | 09/23/2020
Bullshit. UO is a fantastic bargain for in-state students. Study hard, get good grades, talk to your professors (and we will talk to you) and you can get a good job where what you’ve learned will matter. If you want to be an academic you can actually do research with the faculty and go on to any graduate school in the country. In economics that includes Harvard, MIT, etc. My students and those of my colleagues have proved that.
faculty member
09/24/2020
Bullshit. UO grad’s average starting salary is $40K, USU’s is $45, Stanford $77K, UW’s $60K. Plus, most good schools offer “need based scholarships” where you only pay what you can afford, and do not get stuck with $50K in student loans, and $40K salary. Extrapolate this over lifetime, and UO is anything but a “terrific bargain”. I am no economist, but it sounds like some economists need to refresh the basics.
I have been around UO for decades, and know lots of faculty here personally. If they can get thier kids into a real school they will. Never heard about a kid going to UO instead of Princeton because UO is a bargain.
You go to a good school, you get network of upper level buddies for life, you get “brand name” that you carry, you get respect etc. What do you get by going to UO? Some mediocre kids to hang around with? Free tickets to terrific foodball games? Classes taught by faculty that almost never get rejected for tenure? Lowest ranked university among its so-called “peers”. Yes, there are exceptions, and some kids do very well, but those are exception and not the rule.
oh snap. I know UAOSU ain’t been around for too long, but I think UAUO got em beat there, too. Just kidding cousins in Corvallis…
As someone who doesn’t pay attention to the actual tuition price, I am amazed that even with decades of poor state support for the (former) OUS, in-state tuition and fees are only $13K per year! For a hard-working student who is willing to jump through a few hoops and earn some college credit during high school, a college degree from a #103-ranked university can be had for under $50K in cash? And that’s not counting potential financial aid and scholarship money. That is an incredible bargain, paying for itself many times over in lifetime earnings, better health and life expectancy, and many other benefits. Wow.
The WSJ says “Uh….no.”
https://www.oregonlive.com/trending/2016/12/why_the_wall_street_journals_c.html
UO’s own metrics (https://ir.uoregon.edu/tuition) place full cost of education at nearly $30,000. Housing costs nearly as much as Tuition & Fees, and if you think that only applies to on-campus then you haven’t been in the Eugene rental market recently.
Nevermind that most students don’t come from families that have $50K in cash, let alone the >$100K it actually costs. They will be saddled with student loans that their liberal arts degree will be hard pressed to support. The Tableau report linked above lets you select CPI-adjusted dollars, which shows that college costs have doubled over the past 30 years. This is not an incredible bargain.
I get it about it not being cheap, but it is not out of reach if you want it. You gotta live and eat somewhere. You can still find some cheap hole if you look. Ramen and rice and beans will still ward off starvation, just as they did for me at times.
The state long ago decided to spend more on stuff like medicaid and less on higher ed.
I hope your parent(s) have socked away some dough for you. There’s also Pell, the rest, you know it. You should be able to work off some of that <30K. Graduate with $30K debt. You will survive, with any luck.
I know a lot of things suck for you, great recession (on us) and covid (not). But Viet Nam sucked, the draft sucked. Having to support larger families with less dough and no food stamps wasn't always easy. Polio sucked, TB too. Severe mental illness when the only treatment was lobotomy sucked majorly. It still sucks, try to relax.
So, cupcake, suck it up. If you think UO ain't worth it, don't go and stop complaining. Try carpentry, try LCC, try Princeton if 103 is too lowly. Hell, try OSU! Make the most of it!
It’s true that a person who “wants it” could live down by the river and eat the trash that floats down the Willamette, thus reducing costs. But I never claimed that tuition was unpayable, just that it wasn’t the “incredible bargain” that the Shoveler claimed. I didn’t even get into the four and six year graduation rates (56% and 74% for the 2013 cohort year). Six year graduates add another 56K on top and those who leave with no degree at all still have the same student loans to pay off, only they don’t get the average lifetime earnings increase that everyone keeps promising exists.
The rebuttal is always that loans and scholarships exist and that jobs, slums, and ramen exist. This is true, but all are finite (excepting, perhaps, ramen) and so not every student burdened with the high cost of tuition will be able to avail themselves of this strategy. thedude below talks about better 2 year programs at LCC. Great! Does UO see any of that tuition?
Because here’s where people should really care. Faculty, Staff, Townies, what have you all depend on this institution for their livelihoods. This institution has charted a path forward that depends on growth, both in tuition and enrollment. But I don’t need to be an economics professor to tell you that at a certain point, the cost of college will be too damn high. And then we’re all eating ramen.
And the cost of that 50k spread out over 25 years at 5 percent interest a year is $300 a month. Less than their car payment and close to their cable bill. For an average annual returns of 12 percent of year, or roughly 50% increase in earnings, it pays off itself within a few years, and pays of the opportunity cost of 4 years of missed income and tuition with a decade. So for most people college is a good investment.
But for the person on the margin it may not be. So maybe we need better 2 year programs through LCC, or even through UO continuing education programs (which we lack).
Cost of a car payment, eh?
https://www.bankrate.com/loans/auto-loans/auto-loan-delinquencies-rise/
It seems as if some of yazz are doing your best to avoid the most important metric. That being the current state of student loans. Are loans in default, forebearance, or delinquent going up or down? If they’re decreasing, the point can be made that student debt has validity. If not, then they’re to be avoided.
Given that aggregate student loan balance is nearly $1.8 Trillion, it can be said it’s ridiculous that any nation burdens their students with that much debt in order to get a degree…
Well right now total auto loans 1.2 trillion. And the autos are going down in value. And increasing people roll loans over so they are for more than value……OMG we have an auto loan crisis!!!
Look most of the loans in default are for small amounts, drop outs. Not people who graduated with degrees.
So we should focus on college completion as the best way to solve this problem. Which is part preparation, part cost, part on us, and largely on students.
Look we can either raise income taxes to pay for school, or have student loans. The difference is we never get the breakdown of what taxes go to. But no education is free, other than what you teach yourself on the internet watching youtube.
https://wolfstreet.com/2020/02/11/subprime-auto-loans-explode-serious-delinquencies-spike-to-record-but-theres-no-jobs-crisis-these-are-the-good-times/
Well, the amount of auto loans 90+ days delinquent has exploded over the last len years. Tha would indicate, college degreed or not, the capacity to pay for a car has decreased. The worst problems are found in the subprime category, or those with the worst credit. Sort of what colleges and the DOE have militated to take place. They’re allowing teen agers and young adults with no job history, no savings, no extended record of bill paying, you know, the folks who are increasingly unlikely to pay their debt, to take on tens of thousands in loans. Kinda stupid.
You were the one that made the comparison between auto loans and and college debt. Both are showing increasing levels of distressed loans, and increasing default rates. The reason is that despite gettting degrees, the ability to pay for that debt is also diminishing. Again, I asked anyone to display the current state of student loans, if the levels of delinquent, defaulted, or those in forbearance, were increasing or decreasing. All categories are, in fact, increasing, meaning that college completion isn’t anywhere near as important as the quality of the wages those graduates receive. But, you are right regarding student responsibility. It is on students not to be so obtuse they’ll believe anyone telling them that taking on student loans, which have little to no consumer protection, at this period of time, is a really good idea.
Further, why is it a question of increasing taxes, rather than cutting costs? You really think that any uni requires their current amount of adminstrative overhead? Does the flagship require any more construction and the attendant debt? Y’all put yourselves into this mess because nothing was in place to control the liabilities side of the balance sheet. Maybe that’s where you should be looking…
This is not directed specifically at you Charlie, because you are hardly the worst offender. But I get 3 main categories of comments on this blog: a) unadulterated and often hilarious snark, b) links to data with no explanation or interpretation, and c) explanations and interpretations with no links to data. We all enjoy the snark (except General Counsel Read and his lawyers, judging by their occasional threats) but please commenters, if you’re doing b include some c, and vice versa. Thanks, The Editor.
UO’s PathwayOregon program ensures that the lowest income Oregon residents pay nothing for tuition. The problem is students just above the Pell threshold (roughly $40K – $50K family income), who get almost nothing. https://pathwayoregon.uoregon.edu/content/award-overview
Help me out here. Why should these students pay nothing for tuition? I believe they should pay substantially less than the sticker price, but zero seems insane. Everything has a price. These are adults who can get jobs and take out modest loans!
It seems like the middle class in this country has been ignored for generations. Tuition is far too high for most residents. Then you run into situations where a student from a more well off family has to pay on their own b/c of family trouble or unwillingness on the part of parents. A student should not be paying $13K annually (unless they are studying engineering). They should pay half that.
Compared to other state universities it is too high.
Tuition should be about $7K tops in my opinion for the modal student after you factor in aid. I wonder what the modal student currently pays?
Also, when universities publish their tuition prices I think they should show a range, not just the high end “list price”. The $13K list price scares a lot of would be students.
The info about real vs sticker cost is pretty available.
Only 4 user reviews? What the hell are we paying all those strategic communicators for?
It is a funny theoretical discussion about the so-called “bargain”. None of them is a bargain because those are two lousy schools… lowest ranked in PAC12 by any reputable ranking, and largely prominent for nothing. I seriously doubt that any of us faculty members here would let out kids go to UO if kids were good enough to get into a real university. Even if it means I have to keep my old Subaru for another four years. For my kids the treat of having to go to UO was always the stick I used to make them study harder.
Bullshit. UO is a fantastic bargain for in-state students. Study hard, get good grades, talk to your professors (and we will talk to you) and you can get a good job where what you’ve learned will matter. If you want to be an academic you can actually do research with the faculty and go on to any graduate school in the country. In economics that includes Harvard, MIT, etc. My students and those of my colleagues have proved that.
Bullshit. UO grad’s average starting salary is $40K, USU’s is $45, Stanford $77K, UW’s $60K. Plus, most good schools offer “need based scholarships” where you only pay what you can afford, and do not get stuck with $50K in student loans, and $40K salary. Extrapolate this over lifetime, and UO is anything but a “terrific bargain”. I am no economist, but it sounds like some economists need to refresh the basics.
I have been around UO for decades, and know lots of faculty here personally. If they can get thier kids into a real school they will. Never heard about a kid going to UO instead of Princeton because UO is a bargain.
You go to a good school, you get network of upper level buddies for life, you get “brand name” that you carry, you get respect etc. What do you get by going to UO? Some mediocre kids to hang around with? Free tickets to terrific foodball games? Classes taught by faculty that almost never get rejected for tenure? Lowest ranked university among its so-called “peers”. Yes, there are exceptions, and some kids do very well, but those are exception and not the rule.
all the bullshit doesn’t matter
we are the most EXCELLENT University
Image is everything
Substance is Nothing